„Wikipédia:Wikitanácsi indítványok/Bencemac (másodszor)” változatai közötti eltérés

::::When Bencemac wrote "non-Hungarian editors", he clearly meant editors who don't speak Hungarian, not editors who aren't natives. I know of at least one editor who is not Hungarian, and received trusted status, but he speaks the language. Race, color, gender, religion, national origin, age, disability, sexual orientation are things people usually can't change, thus treating people differently because of these characteristics is discrimination. Knowledge of a language, however, is open to anyone. The fact that learning a new language just to get trusted status on Wikipedia is generally not worth it, doesn't mean that it's technically not possible, so it's not discrimination to expect a huwiki editor to understand Hungarian.
::::That being said, I've seen your edits and you seem to work together well with other editors of football-themed articles, so I think that granting trusted status to editors like you is something the community should be open to discuss. However, bringing the topic to AB before discussing it properly with Bencemac and perhaps the sysops, seems unnecessarily confrontational, and that doesn't help your case. (I admit I don't know what the usual process in other wikipedias is, but here in huwiki AB is usually the last step.) '''[[User vita:Alensha|<font color="#00928a">A</font><font color="#10a29a">l</font><font color="#20b2aa">e</font><font color="#30c2ba">n</font><font color="#40d2ca">s</font><font color="#50e2da">h</font><font color="#60f2ea">a</font>]]''' 2018. február 3., 01:31 (CET)
:::::* "non-Hungarian editors" means only 1 thing, it means people with a different nationality than Hungarian. Maybe Bencemac had the intention to say something different, but that's not what he/she did. The statement made is as clear as can be.
:::::* But even if the ability to speak Hungarian was meant, it's still discrimination in this case. It's called linguicism or linguistic discrimination. The nature of my edits is tables and not textual. For those edits there is no need at all to speak Hungarian. It's an invalid requirement. Is the request of someone for the trusted user status also declined if someone doesn't have the ability to make tables, create templates or create modules? Discrimination is not only about a characteristic someone is able to change or not, but also about whether the characteristic is required for the task to perform. Is a foreign football player declined to play for a Hungarian club team if he can't speak Hungarian? I don't think the fans will care which language he speaks as long as he knows how to play football. So if I'm declined something only because I don't speak Hungarian for doing something for which speaking Hungarian is totally irrelevant, it's still discrimination. And by the fact that I'm able to respond to what people say here, proves I do understand the content of pages. Back to the foreign football player. Does this player need someone who speaks Hungarian to check whether he can play football? I assume your answer will be, no. So why do I need to be checked by someone who speaks Hungarian when I only work on tables which I very well know how to do? I even dare to claim that I know much better how to create tables than the majority of trusted users who do speak Hungarian or whatever other language. To say, as some like Bencemac do, that my edits need to be checked by a Hungarian speaker on a task where the ability to speak Hungarian is totally irrelevant, is not only discriminating but very insulting as well. It degrades me to a second class person.
:::::* Some here talk about what I might do in the future, like starting to make textual edits after all. Do these people raise the same concerns for Hungarians? E.g. what if we give the trusted user status to someone who is incapable to make templates, starts to make templates in the future after all? No one raises those questions. So why are Hungarians given the benefit of the doubt and foreigners distrusted? A very clear other aspect of discrimination.
:::::* Why did I take it to the WT?
:::::*# Initially I posted a message directed to Bencemac on the trusted user request page. I waited more than 48 hours for a response. How many instances you know where Bencemac didn't respond within 48 hours? How long am I supposed to wait for an answer, a week, a month, a year? I think I've given Bencemac a fair chance to respond. Bencemac raised at least the impression of having no intention at all to respond.
:::::*# Discrimination is not something like that. Call me an idiot, I don't care. Discriminate me, it's a different story. We're dealing with a very serious issue, a fundamental human right. Fundamental human rights are not just personal. It should be clear whether we are dealing with the opinion of an individual or with a policy of the Hungarian Wiki. In my opinion issues like that should be answered by the top and not be discussed in some tea season (if you get my drift). It should be very clear whether discrimination is tolerated or even a policy on the Hungarian Wiki. Looking at Bencemac statement "''a bürokraták kézikönyvének idevágó szakasza alapján hoztam meg''" and how some here advocate for a different treatment of foreigners shows me I came exactly to the right place. And if needed I'll take it all the way up to the Board.
::::: Once again, people should be judged by the work they do and have done, not by the work they don't do and haven't done or have no intention of starting to do. Especially not based on speculations about the future, where foreigners are portrait as people you can't trust or to be the only ones who can make mistakes. My request wasn't declined based on the reason "you're making top many grammar mistakes" or "you are making top many technical mistakes" or "your edits are of poor quality/meet the required standard". but on the fact "you're non Hungarian", now by some explained as "you might start making grammar mistakes in the future", "you might start making technical mistakes in the future", "foreigners need a babysitter no matter what".
::::: It are unequal criteria or irrelevant criteria, an unequal treatment and discrimination in every aspect.
::::: – [[Szerkesztő:Sb008|Sb008]] <sup>[[Szerkesztővita:Sb008|vita]]</sup> 2018. február 3., 06:48 (CET)
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